Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: Internal fuzzy matching: WFP 3.4 x Trados 2011 x MemoQ 6.2
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: Rudimentary fuzzy word matches anyone?
[quote]Kevin Dias wrote:
Hi Samuel,
Thanks for providing this. I am not a translator, but it has always struck me as strange that translators don't demand more transparency in how fuzzy matches/internal fuzzy matches are calculated as your pay can be highly dependent on this calculation.
Of course, the tool makers seem to always counter with "translators wouldn't be able to understand it anyway"; however, I don't think this is true. To this I would say to the tool makers, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.".
I wrote a blog post back in March about some of the points/areas that could cause fuzzy match scores to differ. In my opinion I think the industry should agree on a standardized way to calculate fuzzy matches/internal fuzzy matches.
Kevin [/quote]
Hi Kevin,
Since this thread has been pushed up again to greater visibility, I just wanted to add something.
These kinds of calculations and calculated results have no great impact on the price I charge. Especially these so-called internal fuzzies. Let me explain.
This analysis and other general fuzzy word analyses will give you a certain insight into how segments or the content of such segments repeat, or, if compared with a TM, they will show that there are certain similarities with previous translated segments of other texts.
But to make this the basis of calculating a price or let agencies dictate to you some arbitrarily reduced payment per certain fuzzy repeat percentages is unacceptable and exploitation.
I am telling others who don't know this that charges for language services must be based on the quality you deliver, more than anything else. Of course you will factor in how long it will take you, but the price or rate you arrive at needs to reflect an amount that enables you to deliver that quality. Meaning, you factor in your skills, your professional and life experience, your knowledge of the fields you work in, and of using CAT tools and TMs, timely delivery and many other considerations to arrive at that price. And that will go into calculating a fair price nevertheless, not an unrealistic high price. But realistic it must be!
Charging per word is really simply a way to express all that goes into delivering a flawless product.
It's not "just" the words, what kind of words, how many words there are, and how many repetitions of text occur (as per a CAT tool analysis) that determine professional prices.
This is important for any translator to understand; clients often have no idea about adequate prices in our profession and unprofessional agencies compete in the low ball section of our industry and are trying to use schemes like internal and other fuzzy word counts to DEMAND discounts for repetitions. But as the number of amateurs increases, the harder they will fight it out on the bottom of our industry. You don't want to be a part of that because in the end, it/you will go nowhere.
Just because we have tools to perform certain (often very insignificant) word analyses doesn't mean we are now calculating our prices based on these analyses.
Just to make it clear: no one should ever let their price/fee depend on fuzzy word analyses.
The analysis isn't equivalent (or expresses) the actual amount of work that needs to be performed;
it is no measure of the quality of the translation;
it doesn't express the knowledge necessary to judge how significant or insignificant that count is,
it is no measure of the experience, the skills and commitment of the translator;
and when a translator uses a CAT tool, he/she doesn't use it to arrive at the lowest price anyone will accept but as part of his/her overall "tool box;" quicker and more accurate delivery, consistency regarding terminology can be but isn't always a benefit reaped by using CAT tools. And if it is, it doesn't follow logically that the translator should charge less for his/her work. The opposite seems more logical. And that goes for faster delivery too.
And that goes for any fields of expertise unless you have 100% repetitions of certain words or numbers in a text that not only are the same in the original text but also in the target text. Just because a certain word occurs 70 times in the source text doesn't mean it will occur exactly the same way 70 times in the target text. And that goes for previous TMs as well. That's just one example of why one cannot base prices on fuzzy word counts.
What's next to demand lower prices? The rudimentary internal fuzzy match?
Topic: Internal fuzzy matching: WFP 3.4 x Trados 2011 x MemoQ 6.2
Poster: Bernhard Sulzer
Post title: Rudimentary fuzzy word matches anyone?
[quote]Kevin Dias wrote:
Hi Samuel,
Thanks for providing this. I am not a translator, but it has always struck me as strange that translators don't demand more transparency in how fuzzy matches/internal fuzzy matches are calculated as your pay can be highly dependent on this calculation.
Of course, the tool makers seem to always counter with "translators wouldn't be able to understand it anyway"; however, I don't think this is true. To this I would say to the tool makers, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.".
I wrote a blog post back in March about some of the points/areas that could cause fuzzy match scores to differ. In my opinion I think the industry should agree on a standardized way to calculate fuzzy matches/internal fuzzy matches.
Kevin [/quote]
Hi Kevin,
Since this thread has been pushed up again to greater visibility, I just wanted to add something.
These kinds of calculations and calculated results have no great impact on the price I charge. Especially these so-called internal fuzzies. Let me explain.
This analysis and other general fuzzy word analyses will give you a certain insight into how segments or the content of such segments repeat, or, if compared with a TM, they will show that there are certain similarities with previous translated segments of other texts.
But to make this the basis of calculating a price or let agencies dictate to you some arbitrarily reduced payment per certain fuzzy repeat percentages is unacceptable and exploitation.
I am telling others who don't know this that charges for language services must be based on the quality you deliver, more than anything else. Of course you will factor in how long it will take you, but the price or rate you arrive at needs to reflect an amount that enables you to deliver that quality. Meaning, you factor in your skills, your professional and life experience, your knowledge of the fields you work in, and of using CAT tools and TMs, timely delivery and many other considerations to arrive at that price. And that will go into calculating a fair price nevertheless, not an unrealistic high price. But realistic it must be!
Charging per word is really simply a way to express all that goes into delivering a flawless product.
It's not "just" the words, what kind of words, how many words there are, and how many repetitions of text occur (as per a CAT tool analysis) that determine professional prices.
This is important for any translator to understand; clients often have no idea about adequate prices in our profession and unprofessional agencies compete in the low ball section of our industry and are trying to use schemes like internal and other fuzzy word counts to DEMAND discounts for repetitions. But as the number of amateurs increases, the harder they will fight it out on the bottom of our industry. You don't want to be a part of that because in the end, it/you will go nowhere.
Just because we have tools to perform certain (often very insignificant) word analyses doesn't mean we are now calculating our prices based on these analyses.
Just to make it clear: no one should ever let their price/fee depend on fuzzy word analyses.
The analysis isn't equivalent (or expresses) the actual amount of work that needs to be performed;
it is no measure of the quality of the translation;
it doesn't express the knowledge necessary to judge how significant or insignificant that count is,
it is no measure of the experience, the skills and commitment of the translator;
and when a translator uses a CAT tool, he/she doesn't use it to arrive at the lowest price anyone will accept but as part of his/her overall "tool box;" quicker and more accurate delivery, consistency regarding terminology can be but isn't always a benefit reaped by using CAT tools. And if it is, it doesn't follow logically that the translator should charge less for his/her work. The opposite seems more logical. And that goes for faster delivery too.
And that goes for any fields of expertise unless you have 100% repetitions of certain words or numbers in a text that not only are the same in the original text but also in the target text. Just because a certain word occurs 70 times in the source text doesn't mean it will occur exactly the same way 70 times in the target text. And that goes for previous TMs as well. That's just one example of why one cannot base prices on fuzzy word counts.
What's next to demand lower prices? The rudimentary internal fuzzy match?