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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | Join or Split

June 9, 2019, 3:44 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Hans Lenting
Post title: Join or Split

[quote]Csaba Lehel wrote:

Thank you, I will check that! But as I see, it requires switching between the two applications for every sentence. It would be better to have a solution that can handle the whole source text in the file. Or is it possible to transfer this way in one step more than one sentence from Word to CAT, and CAT to see them properly? [/quote]

If the segmentation in the first column doesn’t need to be kept, you can just use Join and Split in nearly every CAT tool.
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | @Csaba

June 9, 2019, 4:57 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Csaba

[quote]Csaba Lehel wrote:
Translation is normally done in a DOC table, left column for source, right for target. There is one special problem: since this will be subtitle, an average sentence is split into a few cells. [/quote]

OmegaT does have a function whereby it ignores line breaks in TXT files. So what you could do, is this:

1. Copy/paste the source column into a new Word file.
2. Convert the table to text.
3. Add <#> at the end of every line (i.e. find [b]^p[/b], replace with [b]<#>^p[/b]).
4. Save as plain text, i.e. TXT in Unicode or Unicode 8.

In OmegaT:

1. Create a new project and add the TXT file to it.
2. In OmegaT, go Options > File Filters. Select "Text" and click the Options button. Set the "Segment source text into paragraphs on" setting to "Never".
3. In OmegaT, go Options > Preferences > Tag Processing. In the field called "Regular expression for custom tags", type <#> (or: if there is already something in that field, add [b]|[/b]<#> to it).

Then do the translation. To create a line break, press Shift+Enter. Make sure every segment that has <#> in the source also has it in the target (an easy way to insert it is using Ctrl+Space a few times). You can check if you've forgotten any, by using Tools > Check issues at any time, and when you create the final file. If you keep forgetting that "Enter" is for moving to a new segment, you can disable it in Options > Preferences > General (use TAB to advance), but you'll still have to use Shift+Enter to insert a new line.

The reason for the <#> is to help you to check the final file to make sure it has the same number of lines as the original one, and that the cells are likely to match up when you paste it into MS Word in the end. I mean, if you're happy that you don't need to use the <#>, then you don't have to, obviously.

One downside to this method is that it's very difficult in OmegaT to merge or split a segment, so if you have more than one sentence in a single cell, OmegaT will show them as separate segments (which may not be a problem, but it's worth keeping in mind).

[Edited at 2019-06-09 11:59 GMT]
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | Another approach

June 9, 2019, 5:00 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Hans Lenting
Post title: Another approach

[quote]Csaba Lehel wrote:

Thank you, I will check that! But as I see, it requires switching between the two applications for every sentence. It would be better to have a solution that can handle the whole source text in the file. Or is it possible to transfer this way in one step more than one sentence from Word to CAT, and CAT to see them properly? [/quote]

If the segmentation in the first column doesn’t need to be kept, you can just use Join and Split in nearly every CAT tool.

If the segmentation of the source needs to be kept, this can be done too:

[url removed]

(Just convert the TM to a 2-column MS Word document afterwards.)
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | Thanks for both of you!

June 9, 2019, 8:28 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Csaba Lehel
Post title: Thanks for both of you!

To Hans: Thank you for making the video! :) The segmentation of source has to be kept, and the target has also to be a matching number of segments. I see it is possible to do it in CafeTran. At the moment I have just OmegaT, that has no similar to join or split. Checked Wordfast Anywhere, that has Expand and Shrink, which looks similar.

To Samuel: thanks, I tried reproducing what you wrote, and I think it worked. I like this approach better, because it works with the whole file, and works even in OmegaT without join and split. If I can't match target number segments to source in OmegaT perfectly, no problem, it is quite easy to correct that in Word as well.

I still think changing the segmentation rules would be the simplest way, but the only thing I discovered is that this hidden character at the end of cells is called either 'end of cell mark', or 'end of row mark' (or marker). How to tell a CAT not to end the sentence there, I have no idea. I found Okapi's Ratel doing these kind of SRX files, but I am completely lost at this point.

Thank you, really, for both of you!!! :)
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | @Csaba

June 9, 2019, 12:08 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: @Csaba

[quote]Csaba Lehel wrote:
I still think changing the segmentation rules would be the simplest way, but the only thing I discovered is that this hidden character at the end of cells is called either 'end of cell mark', or 'end of row mark' (or marker). [/quote]

I think block-level (i.e. paragraph or cell) segmentation is pretty much hard-coded in most CAT tools. You can only adjust the segmentation rules within those block-level elements, and not create a segmentation rule that causes the segment to span across more than one block-level element. I know of no CAT tool that can do this with Word or Excel files.

Expand/merge and shrink/split in most CAT tools won't allow you to merge across block-level boundaries either. The purpose of the merge/split feature in a CAT tool is mostly to help fix it when the CAT tool didn't guess correctly how to segment a piece of text.

[quote]At the moment I have just OmegaT, that has nothing similar to join or split. [/quote]

Yes, no, OmegaT doesn't have a built-in merge and split feature yet. To merge or split in OmegaT, you have to edit the segmentation rules, which are quite complicated. You can merge and split using a script in OmegaT, though (just ask in the OmegaT forum where to get it).
But anyway, OmegaT doesn't allow you to set segmentation rules that will expand segments beyond the paragraph/cell boundary, so a merge/split feature won't help you anyway.

The best current OmegaT solution is to edit the source text and then press F5 (reload).

[Edited at 2019-06-09 19:16 GMT]
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | And now for something completely different

June 9, 2019, 1:46 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Jean Dimitriadis
Post title: And now for something completely different

It may sound counter-intuitive, but if you are translating subtitles, why not use a subtitling software instead?

The MS Word tables workflow you describe does not sound very efficient, although I don't know the specifics (like at which point the subtitles are synchronized, are they synced by somebody else? What happens to the word tables? etc.)

If you use a subtitling program, you can have stuff such as CPL (characters per line, with warnings in case a line exceeds the specified limit), CPS (characters per second), WPM (words per minute), subtitle duration, as well as the ability to review the audio and (p)review the video if needed, merge or split subtitles, tweak the timing, etc. all which are useful when subtitling.

And of course, line breaks are no issue at all.

Translating subtitles is still subtitling in my book, not merely translation. It is an activity that often requires a different approach and specific strategies/techniques.

I don't know your actual workflow, but I suggest you take a step back and review the whole process.

Here's how I would tackle such a task:

- Transcript the original audio and (then) time code it (roughly at least, or more precisely, if the original language subtitles will be used in production and for translating into -multiple- other languages).
- Translate the subtitles using a subtitling software.

If you must use a CAT tool, some CAT tools handle subtitling formats, but unless they offer information such as CPL, CPS, subtitling duration, video/subtitles preview, etc. I'd say subtitling in a CAT tool is an exercise in futility. This is just my personal opinion.

That said, SDL Trados 2019 now offers a plugin which seems very promising, as it offers most of the capabilities one would require, plus some added QA features.

But for voluntary work, unless you or your team already own SDL Trados 2019, that might represent quite an investment.

Especially if you are working with a team, why not use a specialized gratis application for subtitling?

The cross-platform free-llbre software Aegisub comes to mind, but its development has ceased, so I don't know if will be a solution on the long run. It even has a "Translation" module, but you can just translate with its main interface as well.

Anyway, this is just a (different) POV.

Jean

[Edited at 2019-06-09 20:50 GMT]
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | This is different subtitling

June 9, 2019, 2:12 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Csaba Lehel
Post title: This is different subtitling

Hi Jean,
I am just a member of a huge team doing subtitling of the same TV shows in more than 20 languages. The people who can have an overview of the whole project decided this format, I can do nothing just follow it. I do not even know how they come up with timecode, how they handle subs in 20+ languages, nothing, really. There is quite a lot of repetition, similar phrases over and over, so that is why I try CAT.
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CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules | Volunteer subtitling project

June 9, 2019, 10:31 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool with easily adjustable segmentation rules
Poster: Heinrich Pesch
Post title: Volunteer subtitling project

Those volunteers are the people that have brought rates for subtitling professionals down. Maybe there is software from volunteering software designers that would solve your problem.
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CAT Tool Recommendation

June 13, 2019, 4:45 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Zakka

Hi all, new to ProZ, but just need some advice.

I've been part of a video game translation team for several years now, and in this time we've maintained a rather primitive operation, using just word and excel documents and manually managing our glossaries. I would like to have a CAT tool to help speed things up, but being a low-cost operation we can't just buy and test everything ourselves (glancing at past posts here seem to suggest that would be the best course of action).

Mainly, we need a tool that can allow us to:
-Manage a shared glossary (all of us tend to work together on the same project, and we have a big problem with multiple translations of the same term)
-Glossary identification and prediction
-Compatible with word and excel docs (documents are only sent to us in these formats)
-Able to attach reference images to glossary terms (we need this in video game translations)
-Relatively easy to learn for beginners

-A collaborative editing function (kind of like Google docs, where everyone can work on one file; this is good to have, but not exactly necessary)

Would really appreciate any suggestions for CAT tools that can meet our needs. Thank you all in advance.
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CAT Tool Recommendation | OmegaT

June 13, 2019, 7:35 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: PROSGR
Post title: OmegaT

You should try OmegaT [url removed]
[url removed]
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CAT Tool Recommendation | Re: OmegaT

June 13, 2019, 11:13 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: Re: OmegaT

[quote]PROSGR wrote:
You should try OmegaT['s team project function]
[url removed] [/quote]

It is true that OmegaT has a "team project" feature with which multiple translators can work on a single project. The team is a little difficult to set up, though.

OmegaT's glossary feature does not allow for images. However, if a URL is present in the "comment" of the glossary, the URL becomes a hyperlink in the glossary pane, so if you put a URL of an image in the comment of a glossary entry, the user will see the URL as a blue underlined hyperlink, and if he clicks on it, his browser will load the image. This only works for web URLs such as HTTP and FTP (it doesn't work for [url removed] URLs, so the image can't simply be distributed along with the glossary file itself).

[quote]-Compatible with Word and Excel docs (documents are only sent to us in these formats) [/quote]

OmegaT can handle DOCX and XLSX files, although its support for XLSX is limited to whole-file translation, and if your DOCX file has too many tags, the project manager has to fix the DOCX file and reshare it.

[quote]-A collaborative editing function (kind of like Google docs, where everyone can work on one file; this is good to have, but not exactly necessary) [/quote]

OmegaT does not have this, but if I understand correctly, multiple translators can work on the same file simultaneously in the "team projects" feature. If two translators translate the same or an identical segment in different ways, the newest translation is kept and older ones are lost.

See also:
[url removed]
(some of this information isn't accurate anymore)
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CAT Tool Recommendation | CafeTran

June 13, 2019, 10:11 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Hans Lenting
Post title: CafeTran

CafeTran meets your criteria.

E.g.: [url removed]
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CAT Tool Recommendation | Re: CafeTran

June 14, 2019, 12:00 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Samuel Murray
Post title: Re: CafeTran

[quote]Hans Lenting wrote:
CafeTran meets your criteria.
E.g.: [url removed] [/quote]

1. Does the memory server also share glossaries?
2. How does CafeTran deal with the requirement of [easy access to] images in glossaries?
3. Can multiple translators work simultaneously on a single file in CafeTran? Or, is there an easy way to split the work among multiple translators without splitting the file, and preventing translators from working on a section of the file that is assigned to someone else (or at least warn them about it when they attempt that)?

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CAT Tool Recommendation | Some answers

June 14, 2019, 12:06 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Hans Lenting
Post title: Some answers

[quote]Samuel Murray wrote:

1. Does the memory server also share glossaries?[/quote]

You can convert your glossaries to memories. Memories and glossaries have the same use regarding terminology.

[quote]
2. How does CafeTran deal with the requirement of [easy access to] images in glossaries?
[/quote]

Like oT: by adding a URL to the image. I'm not sure whether a preview is already possible or that you always have to click the embedded link.

[quote]
3. Can multiple translators work simultaneously on a single file in CafeTran?
[/quote]

Not sure ... You'll have to ask the developer: [url removed]

[quote]
Or, is there an easy way to split the work among multiple translators without splitting the file[/quote]

You can save every project as bilingual table or TMX file and split these.

[quote]
and preventing translators from working on a section of the file that is assigned to someone else (or at least warn them about it when they attempt that)? [/quote]

Not sure!
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CAT Tool Recommendation | Example

June 14, 2019, 12:10 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Hans Lenting
Post title: Example

[quote]Hans Lenting wrote:

Like oT: by adding a URL to the image. I'm not sure whether a preview is already possible or that you always have to click the embedded link.
[/quote]

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CAT Tool Recommendation | Memsource/memoq

June 14, 2019, 10:29 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT Tool Recommendation
Poster: Lincoln Hui
Post title: Memsource/memoq

The images you'll have to send separately. But it's a small thing compared to the general robustness of their group project features.
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Translation Workspace - Failed to activate plugin (Could not load Translation Workspace DLL) | HP Notebook 470 G5

June 16, 2019, 11:23 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: Translation Workspace - Failed to activate plugin (Could not load Translation Workspace DLL)
Poster: Robin Miller
Post title: HP Notebook 470 G5

I'm buying an HP Probook 470 G5 too. Did you manage to install Trados?
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What are the best free CAT tools for beginners? | problems with Felix

June 17, 2019, 2:43 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: What are the best free CAT tools for beginners?
Poster: doloreska
Post title: problems with Felix

Hi all,

I downloaded the latest version of Felix last week, version [IP removed] , to my PC (Windows 10) and it just didn't work. I could open it, the two windows appeared, but I couldn't open or add any text that should be translated.

Any ideas what could go wrong?

Thanks :)
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CAT tool for iPad Pro? Any that works on iOS? | How was your experience?

June 23, 2019, 6:12 pm
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: CAT tool for iPad Pro? Any that works on iOS?
Poster: Dylan Jan Hartmann
Post title: How was your experience?

I've had the dilemma of an almost ageing MacBook (2015 model) and whether to update it or try something else.

So instead of replacing it altogether, I've just purchased my own 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

How have your experiences with it been?

Any tips/tricks?

Cheers!
DJH
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Translation Workspace - Failed to activate plugin (Could not load Translation Workspace DLL) | Same problem on Dell PC

July 11, 2019, 2:03 am
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Forum: CAT Tools Technical Help
Topic: Translation Workspace - Failed to activate plugin (Could not load Translation Workspace DLL)
Poster: Joshua Green
Post title: Same problem on Dell PC

Did you ever manage to fix this?
I just reinstalled Windows and am now encountering the same issue
It seems to be working as normal, but I am nervous that some functionalities will be impaired.
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